US EQUITIES CLOSED CRYPTO 24/7
HALAL TRADING ROOM Sharia-screened signals
TERMINAL
RW

RWINXETF / FundRedwood AlphaFactor Tactical International Fund

Open in terminalCompare
Alert

Verdicts genuinely change. Free email alert the moment RWINX's does — no target price to set, unlike "Alert" above.

Could not fetch a live price for this symbol.
Sharia status
NOT COMPLIANT
Screened by look-through to its filed holdings — 76% of portfolio weight covered
Fund look-through

Redwood AlphaFactor Tactical International Fund · Two Roads Shared Trust

79 holdings

NON-COMPLIANT 35.98% of portfolio weight is in non-compliant holdings, over the 5% threshold.

79 holdings, 67 matched (76% of weight). Portfolio as of 2026-07-31, filed 2026-09-28. Source: SEC Form N-PORT.

2.38% of this portfolio’s income is non-permissible — weighted across holdings, computed over 71% of portfolio weight (63 of 79 holdings). The common approach purifies that proportion of income received — dividends — not of the position’s value. We report the ratio; what to do with it is a question for your own scholar.

37.5% compliant 0.0% questionable 36.0% non-compliant 23.7% unscreened

All holdings (79)
HoldingStatusWeightEvery methodology, and the debt ratio behind it
US BANK MMDA UNSCREENED 7.77% no in-house ratios for this holding
REDWOOD PRIVATE REAL ESTATE DEBT FUND UNSCREENED 4.61% no in-house ratios for this holding
7735.T SCREEN HOLDINGS CO LTD COMPLIANT 1.91% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
N/A UNSCREENED 1.86% no in-house ratios for this holding
TFII TFI INTERNATIONAL INC COMPLIANT 1.64% AAOIFI16.6% Usmani34.3% Dow Jones Islamic26.9% S&P Shariah25.4% MSCI Islamic34.3% MSCI Islamic M-Series25.4% FTSE Shariah34.3%
6098.T RECRUIT HOLDINGS CO LTD COMPLIANT 1.61% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
4188.T MITSUBISHI CHEMICAL GROUP CORP NON_COMPLIANT 1.55% AAOIFIfail Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
SU SUNCOR ENERGY INC COMPLIANT 1.52% AAOIFI13.4% Usmani21.2% Dow Jones Islamic19.8% S&P Shariah21.8% MSCI Islamic16.1% MSCI Islamic M-Series21.8% FTSE Shariah16.1%
CNQ CANADIAN NATURAL RESOURCES LTD COMPLIANT 1.48% AAOIFI— Usmani— Dow Jones Islamic— S&P Shariah— MSCI Islamic— MSCI Islamic M-Series— FTSE Shariah—
DHL.DE DEUTSCHE POST AG NON_COMPLIANT 1.45% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
UBSG.SW UBS GROUP AG NON_COMPLIANT 1.38% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
KNORR BREMSE AG UNSCREENED 1.36% no in-house ratios for this holding
A.P. MOLLER-MAERSK A/S UNSCREENED 1.35% no in-house ratios for this holding
NVS NOVARTIS AG COMPLIANT 1.34% AAOIFI12.5% Usmani25.9% Dow Jones Islamic11.8% S&P Shariah12.6% MSCI Islamic25.9% MSCI Islamic M-Series12.6% FTSE Shariah25.9%
EQNR EQUINOR ASA NON_COMPLIANT 1.33% AAOIFI2.5% Usmani18.0% Dow Jones Islamic32.5% S&P Shariah32.6% MSCI Islamic18.0% MSCI Islamic M-Series32.6% FTSE Shariah18.0%
CTC-A.TO CANADIAN TIRE CORP LTD NON_COMPLIANT 1.32% AAOIFI77.2% Usmani46.9% Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamic35.6% MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariah35.6%
5020.T ENEOS HOLDINGS INC NON_COMPLIANT 1.31% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
S68.SI SINGAPORE EXCHANGE LTD NON_COMPLIANT 1.31% AAOIFI2.5% Usmani15.9% Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamic14.9% MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariah14.9%
ARX.TO ARC RESOURCES LTD COMPLIANT 1.30% AAOIFI20.6% Usmani32.3% Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamic25.6% MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariah25.6%
RAND.AS RANDSTAD NV COMPLIANT 1.29% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
KUEHNE & NAGEL INTERNATIONAL AG UNSCREENED 1.28% no in-house ratios for this holding
SUNB SUNBELT RENTALS HOLDINGS INC NON_COMPLIANT 1.26% AAOIFI38.5% Usmani49.1% Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamic48.4% MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariah36.2%
ELE.MC ENDESA SA - EMPRESA NACIONAL ELECTRICIDAD COMPLIANT 1.26% AAOIFI26.3% Usmani31.2% Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamic29.1% MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariah29.1%
TTE.PA TOTALENERGIES SE NON_COMPLIANT 1.24% AAOIFIfail Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
GOLDMAN SACHS INVESTOR TAX-EXE UNSCREENED 1.23% no in-house ratios for this holding
5108.T BRIDGESTONE CORP COMPLIANT 1.22% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
OTSUKA HOLDINGS COMPANY LTD UNSCREENED 1.20% no in-house ratios for this holding
8058.T MITSUBISHI CORP NON_COMPLIANT 1.20% AAOIFIfail Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
SCMN.SW SWISSCOM AG COMPLIANT 1.19% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
CON.DE CONTINENTAL AG NON_COMPLIANT 1.18% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
6586.T MAKITA CORP COMPLIANT 1.16% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
AENA.MC AENA SME SA COMPLIANT 1.15% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
YAR.OL YARA INTERNATIONAL ASA NON_COMPLIANT 1.14% AAOIFIfail Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
GSK GSK PLC COMPLIANT 1.14% AAOIFI19.2% Usmani23.6% Dow Jones Islamic10.6% S&P Shariah11.2% MSCI Islamic23.6% MSCI Islamic M-Series11.2% FTSE Shariah23.6%
BP.L BP PLC NON_COMPLIANT 1.12% AAOIFIfail Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
4507.T SHIONOGI & CO. LTD NON_COMPLIANT 1.12% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
SHEL SHELL PLC NON_COMPLIANT 1.11% AAOIFI38.4% Usmani20.4% Dow Jones Islamic17.6% S&P Shariah18.0% MSCI Islamic20.4% MSCI Islamic M-Series18.0% FTSE Shariah20.4%
EMP-A.TO EMPIRE COMPANY LTD NON_COMPLIANT 1.10% AAOIFI74.1% Usmani84.7% Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamic46.0% MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariah46.0%
6501.T HITACHI LTD COMPLIANT 1.08% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
EVO.ST EVOLUTION AB NON_COMPLIANT 1.07% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
WRT1V.HE WARTSILA OYJ ABP COMPLIANT 1.06% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
BNR.DE BRENNTAG SE NON_COMPLIANT 1.05% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
KGC KINROSS GOLD CORP COMPLIANT 1.04% AAOIFI1.8% Usmani5.9% Dow Jones Islamic2.9% S&P Shariah3.7% MSCI Islamic5.9% MSCI Islamic M-Series3.7% FTSE Shariah5.9%
AZN ASTRAZENECA PLC COMPLIANT 1.04% AAOIFI— Usmani— Dow Jones Islamic— S&P Shariah— MSCI Islamic— MSCI Islamic M-Series— FTSE Shariah—
AIR.PA AIRBUS SE NON_COMPLIANT 1.03% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
KPN.AS KONINKLIJKE KPN NV NON_COMPLIANT 1.03% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
GMAB.CO GENMAB A/S COMPLIANT 1.03% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
HM-B.ST H&M HENNES & MAURITZ AB COMPLIANT 1.02% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
RYAAY RYANAIR HOLDINGS PLC COMPLIANT 1.00% AAOIFI9.6% Usmani15.3% Dow Jones Islamic3.6% S&P Shariah3.0% MSCI Islamic15.3% MSCI Islamic M-Series3.0% FTSE Shariah15.3%
FME.DE FRESENIUS MEDICAL CARE AG NON_COMPLIANT 1.00% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
DTE.DE DEUTSCHE TELEKOM AG NON_COMPLIANT 0.99% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
RECORDATI - INDUSTRIA CHIMICA E FARMACEUTICA SPA UNSCREENED 0.99% no in-house ratios for this holding
SCHP.SW SCHINDLER HOLDING AG COMPLIANT 0.98% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
ERIC-B.ST TELEFONAKTIEBOLAGET LM ERICSSON COMPLIANT 0.97% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
PNDORA.CO PANDORA A/S COMPLIANT 0.97% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
7201.T NISSAN MOTOR CO LTD NON_COMPLIANT 0.96% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
AD.AS KONINKLIJKE AHOLD DELHAIZE NV NON_COMPLIANT 0.96% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
ELISA.HE ELISA OYJ COMPLIANT 0.95% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
4689.T LY CORP NON_COMPLIANT 0.95% AAOIFI52.5% Usmani17.5% Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamic17.5% MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariah17.5%
TEL.OL TELENOR ASA NON_COMPLIANT 0.95% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
8473.T SBI HOLDINGS INC NON_COMPLIANT 0.92% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
7259.T AISIN CORP NON_COMPLIANT 0.92% AAOIFIfail Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
GIB CGI INC COMPLIANT 0.90% AAOIFI13.9% Usmani16.1% Dow Jones Islamic10.4% S&P Shariah10.0% MSCI Islamic16.1% MSCI Islamic M-Series10.0% FTSE Shariah16.1%
3659.T NEXON CO LTD NON_COMPLIANT 0.89% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
AMS.MC AMADEUS IT GROUP SA COMPLIANT 0.89% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
NICE.TA NICE LTD COMPLIANT 0.89% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
LR.PA LEGRAND SA COMPLIANT 0.89% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
HEXA-B.ST HEXAGON AB COMPLIANT 0.89% AAOIFIpass Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
DASSAULT SYSTEMES SE UNSCREENED 0.88% no in-house ratios for this holding
VER.VI VERBUND AG COMPLIANT 0.88% AAOIFI11.2% Usmani13.4% Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamic12.4% MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariah12.4%
MBG.DE MERCEDES-BENZ GROUP AG NON_COMPLIANT 0.88% AAOIFIfail Usmanipass Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahpass
LOGN.SW LOGITECH INTERNATIONAL SA COMPLIANT 0.88% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahfail
7270.T SUBARU CORP NON_COMPLIANT 0.86% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
DIM.PA SARTORIUS STEDIM BIOTECH SA COMPLIANT 0.82% AAOIFIpass Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicpass S&P Shariahpass MSCI Islamicpass MSCI Islamic M-Seriespass FTSE Shariahpass
TEF.MC TELEFONICA SA NON_COMPLIANT 0.76% AAOIFIfail Usmanifail Dow Jones Islamicfail S&P Shariahfail MSCI Islamicfail MSCI Islamic M-Seriesfail FTSE Shariahfail
CHECK POINT SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGIES LTD UNSCREENED 0.74% no in-house ratios for this holding
PDD PDD HOLDINGS INC NON_COMPLIANT 0.65% AAOIFI0.7% Usmani0.9% Dow Jones Islamic0.1% S&P Shariah0.1% MSCI Islamic0.9% MSCI Islamic M-Series0.1% FTSE Shariah0.0%
WIX.COM LTD UNSCREENED 0.43% no in-house ratios for this holding
OCTV OCTAVE INTELLIGENCE PLC COMPLIANT 0.16% AAOIFI13.7% Usmani10.1% Dow Jones Islamic— S&P Shariah— MSCI Islamic10.1% MSCI Islamic M-Series— FTSE Shariah9.3%

The published standards disagree about this fund by 11 points of portfolio weight — 35.4% of it passes AAOIFI, 24.7% passes MSCI Islamic. Which number is yours depends on which standard you follow.

These bars are the financial-ratio result under each standard — debt, receivables and interest income. They do not screen what the business does, so a holding can pass every ratio here and still be questionable or non-compliant on activity. The blended verdict above accounts for both.

ratios pass on 35.4% ratios fail on 34.7% 27.1% not rated under AAOIFI

67 of 79 listed holdings carry our own per-methodology verdicts (74% of weight). The rest hold a provider verdict with no methodology breakdown, and are counted as rated by none. Of those, 19 (21% of weight) also carry the underlying debt ratio; the rest show a verdict without the figure behind it.

Non-compliant holdingWeight
4188.T MITSUBISHI CHEMICAL GROUP CORP 1.55%
DHL.DE DEUTSCHE POST AG 1.45%
UBSG.SW UBS GROUP AG 1.38%
EQNR EQUINOR ASA 1.33%
CTC-A.TO CANADIAN TIRE CORP LTD 1.32%
5020.T ENEOS HOLDINGS INC 1.31%
S68.SI SINGAPORE EXCHANGE LTD 1.31%
SUNB SUNBELT RENTALS HOLDINGS INC 1.26%
TTE.PA TOTALENERGIES SE 1.24%
8058.T MITSUBISHI CORP 1.20%
🕌Open research, not a fatwa — verify with your own scholar.

Trade setup

Whether the technical picture shows an edge right now. Separate from the Sharia verdict, which this side never overrides.

SEPARATE FROM SHARIAH
No trade setup shown — a stock that isn't cleanly Sharia-compliant never gets a bullish verdict here.

Redwood AlphaFactor Tactical International Fund (RWINX) is currently considered not halal (non-compliant), per our own look-through to its filed holdings. See its filed holdings and the weight breakdown below for the reasoning.

Screened on its holdings, not its name

HTR reads the fund's filed holdings and screens each one, then reports the result by weight. A holding it cannot cover far enough is reported as unrated rather than counted as a pass.

37.5%Compliant 36.0%Non-compliant 23.7%Not screened
HoldingWeightVerdict
US BANK MMDAnot matched to a ticker 7.77% Not screened
REDWOOD PRIVATE REAL ESTATE DEBT FUNDnot matched to a ticker 4.61% Not screened
7735.TSCREEN HOLDINGS CO LTD 1.91% Compliant
N/Anot matched to a ticker · short 1.86% Not screened
TFIITFI INTERNATIONAL INC 1.64% Compliant
6098.TRECRUIT HOLDINGS CO LTD 1.61% Compliant
4188.TMITSUBISHI CHEMICAL GROUP CORP 1.55% Non-compliant
SUSUNCOR ENERGY INC 1.52% Compliant
CNQCANADIAN NATURAL RESOURCES LTD 1.48% Compliant
DHL.DEDEUTSCHE POST AG 1.45% Non-compliant

Top 10 of 79 holdings, 25.4% of the fund by weight. Every holding is screened, not only these.

What holds the number back

The positions keeping this fund short of 100% compliant by weight.

  • US BANK MMDAnot screened7.77%
  • REDWOOD PRIVATE REAL ESTATE DEBT FUNDnot screened4.61%
  • N/Anot screened1.86%
  • 4188.Tnon-compliant1.55%
  • DHL.DEnon-compliant1.45%
  • UBSG.SWnon-compliant1.38%

What changed, and when

Verdict history for RWINX. A verdict that never moved is recorded too, so a quiet history reads as measured rather than missing.

  • 2026-09-07 No change recorded No verdict change for RWINX has been recorded since tracking began. The scan ledger records that the compliance detectors ran, not which symbols each pass covered.

ℹ️ no compliance scan has run for 2 days - this is not a reading of today

SMC — Top Down

Market structure by timeframe, read from real bars. A bias per timeframe rather than a forecast — timeframes disagreeing is information, not noise.

No usable intraday or daily bars came back for this listing, so there is no structure to read.

Before you act on this

The questions worth asking about any verdict on this page, answered plainly.

Is a fund screened on its name?

No. HTR reads the fund's filed holdings and screens each one, then reports the result by weight. A fund marketed as Islamic still gets the same look-through as any other.

What does unrated weight mean?

It is the share of the fund whose holdings HTR cannot cover far enough to rate. It is reported as unrated rather than counted as compliant, because a holding nobody screened should not look like one that passed.

Does the issuer's board make it compliant?

It matters, and it is noted, but it does not replace the look-through. The board's judgement and the holdings screen are shown separately so you can see when they agree and when they do not.

How often is this re-screened?

When the fund files new holdings, and on a rolling basis besides. The date on the verdict above is the last time this fund was actually recomputed.

Open research, not a fatwa. HTR applies published screening standards to filings and publishes what they say, including when they disagree. Nothing here is financial advice or a recommendation to buy or sell. Verdicts can change when new filings land.

Compare with

Same screen, different answers. Comparison is where the standards disagreeing becomes useful rather than confusing.

Peer screening computing — it will appear here on its own.

AI Summary

Plain-language summary of the evidence already on this page — the Sharia screen, structure, momentum, and order flow above. It explains the read; it doesn't make the call. Generated on demand (a live AI call), never run automatically.

Tell us what's working, what's confusing, or what you want to see next — read by a real person, not a form that goes nowhere.